next on dw, thank you so much. these are the news on 835 months into the war and gaza and deadly chaos around in a convoy has glaringly highlighted the desperation and climbing death toll among civilians. the connie just gave humanity is something they haven't seen protected. my guess this week on conflicts on is not to find me. former egyptian foreign minister and long time diplomat of what points as egypt have no choice but to consider opening its border to gardens on humanitarian grounds. have the shocking scenes of suffering brought this conflict to an inflection point not to find the welcome to conflicts own. thank you. tragic deaths around in a tomboy in northern gauze have highlighted the desperation of civilians for food

and the lack of security in the enclave. after everything that you've seen in the past days, is it time for egypt to open its border to civilians from gaza. a tom opening the boards of indians is this would be participating in a pre meditation, consistent effort by these ladies to decrease the density of palestinians on their own territory. and if something was pleasant me, we would not do because we supported by the city and state side by side with us that we continue to take part of the tenants in need of medical supervision or medical help. we take scopes, but a large scale, a number of products. the names were basically, we were playing into these very acts. but you know, it just has certainly made that red line quite clear. they will not accept any force displacement of palestinians, but how do you balance the humanitarian desperation?

i mean, you know, saved the children just out this past week, saying that we are quote, witnessing a mass killing of children in slow motion because there is no more food left. how do you, how do you balance that with your red lines? it's an absolutely great question. we are in a very difficult situation. we cannot allow finally said use to star. we don't want them to be shot it at the same time, we don't want to be forced into a position where we collaborate. indirectly with these ratings fired by decreasing the that's what i've seen it. so what they're doing is provide the as much assistance as we can turn of order. we had dropped also just about 48 hours ago and we continue to host negotiations with these varies and the countries to try to deal with all these issues. but i guess my point is, you know, at what point does egypt have no other choice morally then to open the border? because you know, we know what this is not a crisis of you're making,

but does egypt need to do more to help the people on the ground? i think we are doing quite a bit. but yes, i agree with you. there will be a situation where if they are forced across the board, we will have to make very difficult decision. but how we respond to we, we clearly are not going to care for our students. but that being said, uh, it should not be interpreted as meaning. push them across the border and we will that yes, because pushing out across the board is not only a violation of punish penny and rights. it's also, by the way, if violation of the difference of 80 percent we know of consequence. yeah. and you know, i'd like to ask you a little bit about what is happening right now on the ground at the border because there's been a lot of questions about that. egypt has been building some sort of security perimeter at the border last month. your foreign minister classified as what he called maintenance on the border is in egypt planning an area to house palestinians

in case of and it's really offensive on rasa in or out. i don't know exactly it, but let me tell you what i do now. the area where there is construction was originally an area of license buildings. they were taken down and people were to move out. the government rebuilt that area and invited the direction to go back to that that they have not yet gotten back to that very. and it something that has been going on for over a year. you had the guys a breakout during the last 5 months. so the pressure also became uh, what are we about to do if the person is our force, of course support. uh, we will have to deal with a very dire you might charity situation, but we will also have to deal with the situation where we will not in any way direct or indirect condone is really action that virus, patterson, and rights. and i suspect, but also that violates the options that you piece of it. and that needs to be

clearly understood. yes. so let me ask you a little bit more about the diplomacy that might be going on behind closed doors right now because of israel's foreign minister has said that they have to and i'm quoting here, deal with rafa because they cannot just leave him off there. and that it would coordinate with egypt to address concerns about refugees. what conversations do you think are happening right now between egypt and israel, especially when it comes to, you know, potential incentives, for example. i mean, you know, money and incentives for egypt to take refugees wouldn't hurt what it this is not an issue of money and it said, this is an issue. we are committed to it to states, use the to stay the part of the city and part of that of the just states is guys in the west. like if we were to, to reduce the numbers there. that's what we very, very dave. some is a politicians in the cabinets have opened. you said yes,

we need to move by the seniors, out of guys that are entered egypt or even into your and we'll fight financing to do so. that's the of the current policy. we can make this look all but we have made it also clear that we will not participate in this process. uh, and i can tell you that effects on national security and that's a violation of the patient taking it back to getting aid and air dropping of aid is picking up. even the united states has joined in there are currently discussions on how else to expand the flow, and you know, it's been reported that president biden spoke last week with president. i'll cc about urgency of negotiations and bringing more 8 into gaza. i mean, as egypt your next door, you're trying to get con boys in? do you see the potential, if anything shifting on the ground so that more a can enter? yes, i do see if there is a hostage or

a partial positive change versus incarcerated. and a temporary cease fire that can facilitate a going in the least most recent incident that we saw just was 3 days ago. this was 8 actually you brought in and organized by palestinians and his race. but given that it was a caustic song, is raised themselves to attack the, the group of people who gathered around uh the vehicles they are. so you can have a state, a substantial amount of a going in and a war zone in a country. so there's no way to work secure area. so yes, we want. why realistically negotiations on c spy, it also to change one of the reasons stop getting people killed, but also about for more effective. you mention it. right? and just to pick up on one thing that you said there, i mean the idea is actually said that indeed they did fire, but they didn't actually fire on individuals who were seeking to get a. but again,

there's, there's 2 sides of the story. so i just want to highlight that that's the, the perspective that they are bringing in and the official statements. let's take it back to the ceasefire talks because they, they were due at the time of this interview. they were due to kick off in cairo, egypt and guitar have been mediating between israel and tomas and your foreign minister has said in the past days that he's optimistic about a temporary cease fire being reached before ramadan. what do you think that ccs that might point to optimism for deal? well again you have to assemble. let me tell you what i think he meant he meets up . if you simply listen to all of the international uh, report everybody and everybody has been telling these rays and thomas, let's have these 5 before rum about. they're worried about the situation on the ground, humanitarian political,

but they're also worried about it breaking out beyond the borders in the states on the, on, on his base board. so there's also this track of the expansion. uh, that's, that is what i think we're seeing. now again, 2 points, 2 cabinets here. one, this is not a full safe spot, nor as far as hostages fix this as a partial positive exchange versus those incarcerated and a temporary spot. so it will be a positive step towards a complete ceasefire. you're not going to get with the addition of the conflict or, and the ability to start rebuilding what has been destroyed unless you get a complex. but as one of the, you know, the traditional mediators between these parties. um, so what is a little bit about how you think the pressure on those parties might be right now? because we, we have world leaders speaking out loudly against the scenes of suffering right now

and gaza even the us is real strongest allies, seems frustrated. do you see this as an inflection point in the crisis? do you feel the mood could change the dynamics on the ground again? so it goes up to that question. i think it does, but it's in the section point from either we. we start a process of trying to deal with the imaginary situation. we're substantially and hopefully then the post politics, the policies and the security situation or inflection point will be that it will let to move towards a highly volatile regional context. i don't mean sol slips out is where he was. they told me you see everything from tension and lexie literally in order to the syrian border stuff. right. what's happening inside garza problems on our border as

well? this is going to break out of hand. so the inflection point is either we find a way to slow this box down and try to resolve, it's always going to break out beyond control. so you've made the bridge, they're basically from the temporary cease fire talks now to something a little bit more longer term. and there seems to be a lot of will and diplomatic momentum. we have to say from both arab states and israel's allies, including the us and the u. k. to secure such a long term lasting piece that would indeed include a 2 state solution. you know, you, you've seen over many decades the, all of the previous efforts that have failed is something different this time. yes. the college of getting humanity is something they haven't seen for tactics. so was always a horrible incident in on, inside israel or a month brought us to new territories utility such a nation of leaders by the way,

not by the other side, but private, wrong people. so we've seen that, but to see 5 months, 30000 people killed, at least because there's always under the wrong that we don't count for 70 percent of home women and children start. we have not seen that in a very long, long time. so that's something which, frankly, i come for egypt, we were the 1st to have a piece of people with these ladies. and that's almost 50 years ago or 50 years after the 1st disagreement with isn't to say, not only a lack of control, you know, a comprehensive piece completely, but to see the level of cubic and, and, and, and, and encounter buyers is frankly quite shocking. and it, it, it really burns and my god as how have you been part of this process for so long and as, and as you are coming from egypt,

i'd like to ask you about the saudi lead group of arab states that includes egypt, jordan katara, the u a e, which is reportedly now pushing this post floor plan that would include a reformed palestinian authority, govern and gaza. and a reversible pass toward a 2 state solution from the perspective of arab diplomacy. what could be offered to sweeten the deal for israel because any, you highlighted the trauma of these societies is that the violence, the blood shed. there is no appetite right now for 2 state solution, israel after october 7th. so that's why i be what i let me talk about what i think can be done rather than what's on the table by the hour route, because i don't know actually how far they've gone. ok, i said crisis and concert. we need to say, i'll give you a 10 quick points, intense x, say fire hostage exchange doesn't get incarcerated. you monetary support. uh,

security arrangements between palestinians and as ways and goes into the withdrawal of israeli forces. uh, a, a declaration to recognize you find a city and state based on 6 months, 67 by say, states under occupation by the mustang it's, it's, it's stopped by the city and state under occupation based on 67 reformation by the error countries of their error they would summit, where they said they would all have relations with israel. if there is an end of, of occupation. i want to put all of that under a security council resolution. every one of these points went away. a supported by oh gosh, i create i want to have that adopted by the tasha by the security council in an affirmative vote. and then we go to the parks because that will also require by the

way, elections, it has with elections that aren't part of city. it's essentially the government may ask the settings. yep. i mean it's, it's, you know, you're presenting here a plan, but i, i also want to ask you how you get that planned on with the mood that is currently on the ground. these really cabinet right now has said that any recognition of a palestinian statehood in the wake of the mos terror attacks on israel, on october 7th, which as we know, killed 1200 people and 250 were taken hostage. they've said, and i'm quoting here, it would give a huge reward to unprecedented terrorism. what's your response to that? we're not dealing with one part of the problem rather than the other. what i'm doing here with is the whole issue, and i'm not actually asking these varies, and palestinians accepted at the beginning. what i'm saying is that us egypt, russia, china upfront u. k unit, we all support it, just a so huge. let's agree to this adult day to package and go with it. so these are

ladies and by the student showing that the okay, you have is these fire, you'll have secure is all it has will have secured. but as soon as we'll have a release from what's happening, you're going to have to establish it. you come out of things to deal with guys and the west bank. so we're dealing with the whole thing as to get it. and slowly, within a 2 year period, we can get there if you go to the, to the, to the address today. cuz i know you just probably on your mind. okay. wife cathy, alex, take charge of guys and manage that and provide security. and that's a question which injections have been i asked for hundreds of times. it's probably the most logical, irresponsible question. anybody can think of because we will not be surrogates of his varies, but you know, there's that they will preserve let me just continue. but here's the thing, yeah, they what they want, but i just need to follow up with you on that because you know and ask you to

actually respond to what israel has put forward. they set out this competing plan for postwar garza, it does not include a 2 state solution. it does include overseeing security in the enclave. you've talked about security there. in fact, netanyahu says that israel should have security control over the philadelphia cord, or we know that stuff, borders own between garza and egypt. do you see any circumstances you've talked about coming together? do you see any circumstances under which egypt would be willing to accept that or absolutely not, because that's basically me. so what are the alternatives we occupied a security perspective? this is my point. yeah, let me just tell you. if you tell me that this 10 point plan or a point of a number of points you want, we'll also put a late show at the city and state down the road. then you can get anything and it will not involve is way the security supervision over guess the out of state will i?

that's what to you. ready to have rebuild, not of know what the right to help rebuild. and we'll train and create mechanisms for better management engaged with the westman, but they're not going to be sorry if it's a visually secure. there's absolutely no way that they would accept that for you more. the reason why say that responsible. if we were to put addiction forces or training is in, we have a piece of human with these weights. and these winds enter amendments here. what do we do to them? we end up shooting, but as soon as it is ready, it's not going to happen. you've highlighted all the challenges spoken, but what all the alternatives they go through is give me a structure for a plan. and then we can look at ok is a guarantee managed by an arrow international contingent or international contingent, palestinian contingent with our oversight. the details are, are, are plausible. and we can look at creative solutions,

but not solutions that end up with the fact to is way up to a patient of guys that cannot. but i, we, i, i look again, we were the 1st design a piece of human with this. so that is with a lot of security, we accept that and we're looking at ways to achieve that. but only based on you can't have security unless you solve the problem. the problem is occupation. and these ladies want more transparency and more effectively security that we can actually get, look at, provided that the principal and the doctor patients that let's, let's move on because um, you know, egypt has been also part of this rethink of politics and palestinians. eric pablo, sending areas and part of you know, the plans for potential governance within gauze itself. how do you see the prospects for fragmented palestinian politics to be able to unite after the war? because i mean the palestinian authority president lockwood, a boss, is looking set to stay in his position along with his security chiefs. do you think palestinians will accept that and that the pe might administer?

garza is widely unpopular. let me put it this way. the only way to really administrative does that in a way that's the sectors were part of sentience. and also we also were accepted by these ladies without occupation is to have a pattern sam person and you understand whether we like it or not. how may i have less support before october 7th? now they have more support, not because of what they did, but because it is a reaction to do what they do. passcodes without the doubt it loaded the p a's authority. the pace credit, excuse me. uh. but we need to rebuild that. it may require new leaders are not, had lost it to that. all i'm saying is that, yes, you're, you're heading to the point right on the, on,

on the head. we need to get published and use to look for a new for me. that's why i said we need elections. and we need to just take the government. and there's both, what's back and guess there's a big debate, also raging right now, about whether or not to what extent her mazda should be involved in all of that. on egypt, for its part has acted as a mediator between her moss and its foes. israel, in fact, as we've highlighted, it's also worked with her boss in recent years to counter and as long as i can search and see and the sign i. but you know, for you personally, when you look at the situation after the horrors of october, 7th can be really be part of a post war scenario. in this scenario, if it's a post worst scenario, where we continue to have cyprus of violence, they will be part. there's no question then be fine. because the asset metrical, even though many countries around the world consider them to be a terrorist organization. the united states a do israel, and so this isn't a, this is the mechanical year. i didn't say a postwar scenario. we have peace. i said if we continue to have

a cycle of violence they, they, they are others. other forms of comments will continue to exercise what they pursue as their policy. what i'm putting forward is i want to rebuild about a senior constituency that is effectively supported and presented to it. just a few is parties don't want to accept that, then suddenly they get qualified himself. right. part of that process is like, do, they will have to change. and let's also be civically, can you want, who are we to motion and what now appear to have the option to change? who is what it allows you to with now with us with now, what was it? my question for you is how much so they are, is it my issue is not whether they're, they're not, they are the my issue is how do i build 8

a scenario that allows for addictions for our it was very piece including but it seems like a piece, those who don't want piece, we will that work again. but frankly, i'm the one that were being asked to talk to thomas, who's relations with egypt, were always very, very care uh, but were asked to talk to them now and then we hear, but they're not part of the parents. well. okay, so it was, we talked so then i mean, you know, when you look at all of the scenarios that are possible coming out of this, 1st of all, how do you think the war and gaza ends? and when do you see it ending? uh, do you think you'll see a permanent and sized dawslet any time soon? i don't, i don't, i don't say you'll see a short term complete, and you will probably fine get what hostage agreement temporaries for and then

another. but then you'll have outbreaks from the agreement and regression. neither side really is way to make a strategic decision. we got these varies or mass. uh and that's the, that is what is required. that, that's why at the beginning i said let's put together a package that we outside the region. next we, we, beyond the park is accept. and then we start talking to the party's, their center, to see if we could sell this basically i, i agree with you. they set them up today is not for 2 states use, but actually it's the only ones we'll get them out of this process. as a former negotiator do, i think i could go and, and do it tomorrow, of course not. but and the state's largest, you cannot be reached then what i mean. what realistic alternative do you see to a 2 state solution that can provide peace in the region or is there not?

there there is not, which is the other alternative is a once the reality which would be a continuous contacting person is res. because they also want national identity on a very small piece of land and neither side will give it up completely to the other . furthermore, if you don't allow that equal rights, you will have conflicts with in the one state, so to speak to you. she is extremely difficult. and one states and yours is competing boss, or it is at once the reality of going to your concept. none of us on a um we have unfortunately run out of time. we thank you so much for joining us here on conflicts on thank you for your time. thank you. the

from refugee to business in the summer has made it 10 years ago. she fled from syria to touching or the she started as successful confectionary shots even so she faces the challenges in her new home. the focus on in 30 minutes, d, w. germany 1945 hundreds of thousands of women and girls were raised by soldiers of the full allied powers

of to decades. the victims and mac children of finally breaking the science and talking about the trauma that has shaped their entire lives. women as boys in 75 minutes on dw, the get ready for an exciting auditoriums to look surprised. hi irish. and i'm ready to dive into the hands of to me to do you have you have a one to delete it from port via you can respond on the on expected side to side. what

finally did i write just do it that i'm hosting dw and you called costs don't strength amounts because it's actually about now join us as we travel around your at tracing the see the history of every day. ok. and that bumpy. ride around the world, kind of close to taking the juicy of stories with a little mystery of drama away. a button no need to pack your bags. just sit subscriber heavy. this is a process that will take you along to the right. what is it then? the

you're watching the w news coming to live from berlin, us, president of jo, bite inputs, israel on notice the vows to stop shipments of weapons if as well goes, i have a full scale invasion of rafa. the middle of truth says it has been carrying on strikes against a most target of relations with the west. worse than over ukraine, russia marks the soviet victory in the 2nd world war with a military parade and moscow human rights. campaigners accused a student, these militias of ethnic cleansing in dar for that quote amounts to genocide. and also on our show today with the stage set for the 2nd 0 bush.