invitation to cross the floor of parliament. it invitation to cross the floor of parliament. it is spending the best part of £70,000 a year of your money on a new diversity manager, and today is the feast of the ascension . i'll be joined of the ascension. i'll be joined by the dowager princess of thurn and taxis to discuss the importance of this holy day. state of the nation starts now. i'll also be joined by a stunningly intellectual panel this evening. gb news senior political commentator nigel nelson , and catherine mcbride, nelson, and catherine mcbride, economist and fellow at the centre for brexit policy. as always, as you know, i want to hear from you. it's a crucial part of the programme. email me mailmogg@gbnews.com . but now mailmogg@gbnews.com. but now it's what you've all been waiting for. the news bulletin with karen armstrong . with karen armstrong. >> thank you jacob. it's a minute past eight. i'm aaron

armstrong . the chancellor has armstrong. the chancellor has cautioned the bank of england against cutting interest rates too quickly. the bank has decided to hold borrowing costs at the same level, 5.25, for a sixth time. but the governor, andrew bailey, says he's optimistic inflation will continue to fall and has suggested an interest rate cut could come as soon as next month . but jeremy hunt urged the bank not to take risks with inflation. >> i welcome the fact the bank of england has obviously thought about this very hard. they take this decision independently and i would much rather that they waited until their absolutely sure inflation is on a downward trajectory , and rushed into a trajectory, and rushed into a decision that they had to reverse at a later stage. what we want is sustainably low interest rates. and i think what's encouraging is that the bank of england governor for the first time, has expressed real optimism that we're on that path. >> the foreign secretary says britain will not follow the us in withholding arms from israel if a full scale invasion of rafah goes ahead. his comments

come hours after president joe biden vowed to cut supplies if the southern gazan cities attacked. well, lord cameron says there's a fundamental difference because uk sales are much smaller in scale and are policed by strict rules. but, he added the government would not support an invasion of rafah unless it saw a plan to protect civilians. is speaking at the national cyber security centre, the foreign secretary urged fellow nato members to increase their spending on defence to 2.5% of gdp. more than 9000 migrants have crossed the engush migrants have crossed the english channel in small boats this year. official figures show. 250 people made the journey in two small boats since monday, taking the tally to 2024 to almost 8800. however, gb news can confirm another three small boats arrived on thursday, making the current total 35% higher than at the same time last year. it comes after a home office u—turn on the publication of the number of small boat migrants being prevented from making the illegal journey by

french police . labour's new mp, french police. labour's new mp, natalie elphicke, apologised for comments she made about sexual assault. the mp for dover announced her defection from the tories to labour just moments before prime minister's questions yesterday, but it's ignhed questions yesterday, but it's ignited a backlash amongst some labour mps after comments miss elphicke made in defence of her former partner , who was former partner, who was convicted of assaulting two women. and stormy daniels, has been accused of profiting from a story involving a sexual encounter with donald trump as lawyers sought to undermine her credibility as a witness. the encounters, now at the centre of the former president's so—called hush money trial, mrs. daniels says she signed a statement denying an affair with mr trump because she was told she had to. her lawyer has previously argued that the statement was designed to be technically accurate by denying an affair without denying an affair without denying an affair without denying a sexual encounter. mr trump denies any wrongdoing, and the case continues. you can get

the case continues. you can get the latest on all of our stories by signing up to gb news alerts. the qr codes on your screen or our website has more details. now it's back to . jacob. now it's back to. jacob. >> welcome back to state of the nafion >> welcome back to state of the nation . today, i want to use the nation. today, i want to use the news that astrazeneca has begun a worldwide withdrawal of its covid vaccine. talk to you about the importance of honesty frankness in government. astrazeneca has said the withdrawal was a commercial decision, but whatever the truth , the move has come only days after the company admitted for the first time that its vaccine could, in very rare cases, cause fatal blood clots. i firmly believe the rollout of the vaccine was the right decision. it was an intervention that saved many lives and helped pave the road out of lockdown . the road out of lockdown. however, the government labelled the vaccine as safe and effective and those who did not want to take it were threatened with the loss of basic freedoms and liberties. the vaccine was

and liberties. the vaccine was and remains for the overwhelming majority of the population , majority of the population, safe. yet we've always known that all medical interventions carry some form of risk. we know it now and we knew it then and these were downplayed . so these were downplayed. so regardless of how rigorous the safety regulations were , the safety regulations were, the vaccine was new and lacked long term data. while the rollout was, on the whole successful, we now know that they were not as effective as we first hoped, and although the side effects were rare, they were real. a well—intentioned government was using an element of coercion to increase vaccine take up and therefore the second order effects of a lack of transparency have been damaging to confidence and have encouraged some of the conspiracy theories. so while overegging the pudding may solve a problem in the short term, it can create more in the long term. this is true in human affairs generally from personal lives to the administration of nafions lives to the administration of nations and empires, and the more government is shown to lack frankness, the less cooperation

it will ultimately secure from a population. and this could have very serious consequences if, for example, in contagion, more serious , more deadly than covid serious, more deadly than covid i9 serious, more deadly than covid 19 were to hit these shores , 19 were to hit these shores, people would be less likely to listen to what the governments say. and it encourages, as i mentioned, conspiracy theories. many people write to me about these conspiracy theories of things that really weren't happening. but when the risks are downplayed, people are more likely to believe in it. and the danger of conspiracy theorists and these theories is it encourages people to assume that the truth is routinely hidden from it, and that nothing is as it seems, which isn't generally true , partly because governments true, partly because governments aren't clever enough, but it ends up being calamitous because it's so negative and it lowers trust in society as a whole and a high level of social trust is essential for a healthy and prosperous society. so authorities should learn from this and should refrain from

using the covid response as a model for future crises. individuals should be given the facts , the risks, as well as the facts, the risks, as well as the good information to allow them to make their own choices. we should never have those sorts of lockdowns that people were terrified into. parents must never again be banned from their children's funerals. and this goes for national government, as well as bodies such as the world health organisation. and on the topic of the who, the government is absolutely right to refuse to sign up to its pandemic treaty, which would see us bound to share medical suppuesin us bound to share medical supplies in a global stockpile, undermining our national sovereignty and giving it to a body that just dismissed the risk of the covid coming from wuhan and from a laboratory in wuhan, just dismissed it out of hand as an unreliable body to start with. in 2016, people voted for national sovereignty when they chose to leave the european union. they don't want to give it up to a bunch of bureaucrats in the who. enacting the will of the people is a step in the right direction for the restoration of trust and

honesty and accountability in politics as ever. let me know your thoughts. mal margaret gb news comm . but joining me now is news comm. but joining me now is professor david strain, the associate professor in cardiometabolic health at the university of exeter. and professor, thank you very much for joining me. very grateful forjoining me. very grateful forjoining me. very grateful for your time , the risks of the for your time, the risks of the vaccine are still very, very low, aren't they? >> they are absolutely . and this >> they are absolutely. and this is a really important consideration here. it's approximately 1 to 2 in every 100,000 patients who received that vaccine of getting the blood clots. and actually, we still don't know whether the problem was inherent with the vaccine technology. this adenoviral vector that basically you put a bit of the protein inside another virus and you spread that round, or whether it's the protein itself , because it's the protein itself, because we know that if you caught covid at the time this vaccine was being rolled out, you were 300

more, 300 times more likely to develop the same blood clots that you got from the vaccine. so this was a risk. but the problem was that something that happens 1 in 100,000 times or 2 in 100,000 times, was never going to be picked up in the sort of studies that were required to do the 50,000 people in a trial . in a trial. >> but do you think that the government was too optimistic that it gave the impression that there was virtually no risk? and also when it came to deciding to vaccinate children for whom the risk of covid was so low , so no risk of covid was so low, so no one really went through the balance of risks as the vaccine was being rolled out . was being rolled out. >> so using the word safe with any medicine is always a dangerous thing to do. >> we never know the full risks. if you give a drug for 50,000 people in a trial, we have no idea of risks that are going to be one in 1 million or 1 in even

be one in 1 million or1 in even 1 in 100,000. we just won't pick them up in those trials. however it was all about balancing the risk at the time of covid versus the risk that had been demonstrated with the vaccine. you've got to remember at the time that this was taking place, i was looking after covid patients and i was seeing more deaths in a week than i'd seen in a 12 month period. as a typical consultant. so this was something that was killing people at a rate that we hadn't seen. when it comes to vaccinate , 90 seen. when it comes to vaccinate , go on. >> so that's that's so important that the risk for people who are elderly or were ill in some way was absolutely negligible compared to the benefit, and millions of lives were saved by astrazeneca. it's crucial to remember that, isn't it? >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> i mean, the figures by i mean this this was groundbreaking research. it was really well supported by the british government. and we did a tremendous job of getting that into people's arm faster than anyone else in the world, it's

estimated that this vaccine alone has saved about 6.5 million lives around the world. and the uk has a lot to be proud of. here we have the ground breaking research. then as the factors came, came out as it became apparent that this vaccine was associated with the clots, however rare, and it was decided or determined that that was more so in the younger people . we were also the first people. we were also the first to act. we stopped the vaccination for this astrazeneca vaccine for anybody under the age of 40, where the risk was deemed to be higher , and we used deemed to be higher, and we used alternative vaccine strategies for those people . so this was a for those people. so this was a all a balance of risk versus benefit. and at the time, i firmly believe the decisions that were made were right. but now that vaccine is no longer relevant. it's a vaccine against a version of a virus that isn't in circulation anymore, that the difference between covid that's

circulating now and that original covid is massive. it's actually bigger than the difference between the original covid and the sars epidemic in, in china in 2012. so the vaccine itself is now not relevant to the covid. it's in circulation , the covid. it's in circulation, so it's entirely appropriate. it's being withdrawn. what do you think administrators should learn from this experience and from the admission that it did create the clotting ? create the clotting? >> because i know that as a constituency mp , my mailbag will constituency mp, my mailbag will now, get quite a few letters from people saying, look, i told you so. and my worry is that the pr around the vaccine was too positive early on, which is very helpful to the conspiracy theorists. now >> absolutely. i mean, when the vaccine was first launched, its primary aim was to stop people dying, stop people ending up in itu . it was then also touted itu. it was then also touted that it would stop infection

spreading and that played a massive part in the need to get it. you know, you have to have this to reduce its spreading. well, that was never actually tested in the studies. i think it's really important we come up front and we say, look , this is front and we say, look, this is a vaccine that is designed to stop people from dying . it does stop people from dying. it does reduce spread, but nowhere near as much as we originally hoped for. and by the time we were on our third or fourth variant, by the time we went through alpha delta and omicron, it wasn't preventing the spread, but it still has kept people out of hospital. and that's the important thing. it's all about honesty . it's about saying that honesty. it's about saying that this is a vaccine that has saved millions of lives. it did come with a very small risk. the word safe should never be used with any new medication, irrespective of whether that's a vaccine or a new drug for diabetes, heart disease or whatever. you care to mention. until we've had it for a few years .

a few years. >> and it's a balance of risks, isn't it? and that actually governments, administrators and the population at large aren't brilliant at judging the balance of risks. and the only bit of the rollout i was concerned about when it was being given to school children who seemed to have such a low risk from covid itself, and yet it became partly because of the mistake about reducing spread or reducing spread significantly . it became spread significantly. it became part of the policy, even though this wasn't going to help children. and i thought the risks then weren't being weighed up properly. >> so it's important to say that the zeneca vaccine was never given to children , we already given to children, we already were aware of the blood clotting problems in people under the age of 40. so this particular vaccine was never given to children. the decision to give the vaccination to children was based on the time, on two principles. you've got to remember that covid, although it had a very low risk in children, was still the number one cause

of death of children in the uk and in the states in 2020 and 2021. so although it was a very low risk, it was not a negligible risk. the other thing is, by the time that decision was made, it was clear that although the vaccine doesn't stop, spread it, reduce spread by about 30 to 40. and as our children getting back to school, which was absolutely essential, we got them back into that mixing phase, into school. we knew that schools become well, they become a petri dish for virals . any parent knows that virals. any parent knows that their children regularly bring home all sorts of infections. and so just reducing the infection risk by a third, increase the risk or increase the chance of those children growing up with two parents and full sets of grandparents. however, the principal risk reason for vaccinating children was all about this very low but not insignificant risk of death

due to covid and of course, long covid. we still have around 120,000 children in the uk that are not participating with school normally because of the prolonged effects of this virus, and 120,000 doesn't sound like a lot, but that's a lot of children. it's about in every other classroom that we're seeing here, and we know the vaccine did reduce the risk of that by over 50. so overall, we should be really proud of astrazeneca. >> they saved 6.5 million lives. it was a great british success story . the economy opened up story. the economy opened up earlier. perhaps the pr should be should have been a little bit more cautious. but in the grand scheme of things, the errors were relatively minor and the uk government did a tremendous job of getting behind the whole vaccination programme from start to finish, to give these, the oxford university and the companies the confidence to explore this, not just astrazeneca , but the other astrazeneca, but the other companies who had the vaccines that didn't work without that

original support to say we will underwrite these vaccines to get us out of the pandemic, to get us out of the pandemic, to get us out of lockdown, to get us back to a position where we can be in a room together. >> that was a tremendous success story of both the british government underwriting this. so the national health service that got this into the arm quicker than any other health service in the world. >> well, thank you so much for joining me this evening. i'm very grateful for your time. and we have a statement, a few words from astrazeneca . according to from astrazeneca. according to independent estimates, over 6.5 million lives were saved in the first year of use alone and over 3 billion doses were supplied globally as multiple variants. covid 19 vaccines have since been developed. there is a surplus of available updated vaccines. this has led to a decline in demand for vaxzevria, which is no longer being manufactured or supplied well. coming up, john mcternan is going to try and convince me to defect to labour. plus your taxes will be going up no matter who wins the election.

not. well, we were talking about astrazeneca and the covid vaccine. and you've been sending in your views. mick says the government is right not to sign up to the who. deal. the w.h.o. is up to the who. deal. the who. is in the pockets of china, and we should still well clear of them. robert, the covid vaccines were needed, but they were rushed out for obvious reasons. therefore they carried risk. people must always be given the right to refuse them, and yet the pressure to be jabbed is still being exerted. that's a very fair point. well, yesterday the member of parliament for dover sent shockwaves through the palace of westminster as she crossed the floor and defected to the labour party. it seems now like a distant memory. party. it seems now like a distant memory . when the now distant memory. when the now labour member a year ago was making remarks such as these don't trust labour on immigration, they really want open borders, or the facts are clear. labour do not want to stop the boats tonight . they

stop the boats tonight. they have sided with criminal gangs and those who exploit our system and those who exploit our system and law. but it seems just about anyone can join the labour party these days. former tony blair adviserjohn mcternan had this to say on newsnight last night. >> is there any tory mp that you wouldn't welcome in the party? >> i'd love jacob rees—mogg to be a member of the parliamentary labour party . labour party. >> well, the labour party has seemingly drawn the line at allowing nigel farage into the party. however, i'm joined now by the man himself, party. however, i'm joined now by the man himself , john by the man himself, john mcternan. john, thank you very much for joining mcternan. john, thank you very much forjoining me , some people much forjoining me, some people in the labour party are very cross with you for saying this, even though it seemed to me you were quite clearly joking. jokes are dangerous in politics, aren't they ? aren't they? >> oh, look, some people shouldn't be in politics if they can't take a take a joke. and nobody should be in politics who can't make fun of themselves, in my view. >> well, no, i think i think that's right. but thank you for the invitation. it may not surprise you to know that i'm not going to take it up, but do you really want anyone from the

tory party to join who's criticised your leader so much and strongly opposes so many labour policies ? labour policies? >> i mean, we have members of the parliamentary labour party like john mcdonnell, who voted hundreds of times against tony blair and never, i think, has said a kind word about him. so we are a tolerant party in a broad church party, but i suppose the point i was trying to make is there comes there comes a moment in the life of all governments when they seem to have lost their way and people seem to be drifting off to resign, to stand down to whatever. and then a party like laboun whatever. and then a party like labour, an opposition party, really should be going. if you want to come to us, come to us, we'll teach, you know, we'll treat you kindly. we'll be nice to you. we won't abuse you. we won't shout at you because we want to show to the country we are a big broad party. and for most people last night they heard a headline. they heard that the dover mp, a tory mp, had defected to labour because she thought that the government

had failed to stop the boats. and that, i think, reinforces the feeling they have about labour and about the government. and that's why we did it. >> and it is eerily reminiscent of 96 and 97, isn't it, when a number of tory mps crossed the floor and joined labour? >> yeah. no, no, it's got a feel about it. it's funny, there's some sometimes people say that keir starmer is not like tony. there's not an enthusiasm, but his pledges and policy are quite cautious, like tony's were, he's getting exactly getting people crossing the floor and he's getting big by—election wins. and actually he's done much better than tony the blackpool south by—election in the 26 point swing to labour is one of five by—election wins by labour in this parliament, where the swing has been over 20. tony never achieved five like that, so there's something going on. there's a there's a movement, a movement in the country, a mood in the country, a mood for change, 21st century is different, but i welcome people who want to change. and as you know, there's more joy in the

labour party for one sinner that crosses the floor, for 99 this day. >> well, excellent. and thank you very much for your time this evening, john, and for winding up the po faced brigade, which is one of life's pleasures , is one of life's pleasures, joining me now to discuss this is my panel of gb news senior political commentator nigel nelson, and catherine mcbride, economist and fellow at the centre for brexit policy, nigel, you're now in the labour party all your life, is there any limit on who you would have in the labour party? >> well, i don't think that , >> well, i don't think that, natalie elphicke would have been on my list of tories at the moment. he might find, a comfortable fit with, keir starmers labour party . so it starmers labour party. so it took me by surprise yesterday . i took me by surprise yesterday. i think john was absolutely right there that you get the headline , there that you get the headline, there that you get the headline, the idea that, she's the dover mp , she doesn't like the stop mp, she doesn't like the stop the boats policy, as as , the boats policy, as as, outlined by rishi sunak, and of

course, if she doesn't behave herself in the labour party, they can always take the whip away. >> do you think, as a general rule, switching parties is good for the person who does it that you lose all your friends in the party, that you leave? but are you really ever trusted by the party you join, no, i don't think you are. and i think you have to actually think very long and hard before you do something like that. i also think it should be put to the test at a by—election. i think anyone who changes, who changes parties should at least allow the voters a chance to say whether they approve or not. well, that's what i was going to ask catherine, because it seems to me the thing about changing party is it is such a betrayal of your activists who delivered all the leaflets for you and more importantly, your voters who put you there as conservative. >> people in dover didn't vote for natalie elphicke. people in nonh for natalie elphicke. people in north east somerset don't vote for me. they vote for me as a means to an end , not as an end means to an end, not as an end in itself. >> oh, certainly. and what surprised me most about this story was to discover that the

conservative, 80 seat majority is now only 38 seats. and you think, well, there have been a couple of defections. there have been a few people, a lot of by elections lost and a few people sort of peeling away for other reasons. and it is, i agree with you. and i think this should have happened, during the may administration when quite a few people were leaving the party. then and setting up their own parties. because you're right, people do vote for the party. they can like their mp a lot, but in the end they vote for a conservative. they didn't vote for someone from labour. >> and it's a betrayal. >> and it's a betrayal. >> yeah. because there was a labour candidate . they could labour candidate. they could have voted. >> they could have voted for the labour candidate. they didn't, you know. >> but the weird thing is she's standing down at the next election. so i really don't understand what she was trying to, to do . to, to do. >> well, that's the hard question. why does somebody do this? i think almost everybody who defected when blair was

about to become prime minister end up with a peerage . and you end up with a peerage. and you do wonder whether there is any cause and effect or is that unfairly cynical? >> well, i mean, certainly we'll have to see when keir starmer becomes prime minister, whether the peerages go her way and pulled his way. at the moment, labouris pulled his way. at the moment, labour is saying no peerages weren't dangled before them, i think until we see how natalie elphicke behaves, we'll have to assume she has had a damascene conversion and she will advise keir starmer on housing policy. >> well, that would be interesting to see, in other news, that also seems to illustrate the lack of differentiation between the two political parties at the moment, economists at the national institute for economic and social research have warned that in the event of either party winning the election, taxes will have to go up. the problem seems to lie in the fact that both parties are promised to follow the fiscal rules policed by the obr, which ultimately acts as a constraint around the chancellor's neck . well, back to chancellor's neck. well, back to my pal catherine, we've got to be a tax cutting party in the

tories. otherwise we'll miss the point of us. >> well, taxes don't have to go up when you look at quite good obr figures on the productivity of the public service, there is a huge amount that can be improved. there and that is something that people have to both parties have to think about. but i know that there has been, various, public servant groups have refused to do what they're being asked to do by the government there there are a lot of problems with the way we're spending the money. so you don't have to put taxes up. >> you need to get spending under control, spending under control, mine didn't help. we had a chancellor who was actually keen on interest rates. i don't know if you saw what he had to say i did. it was ridiculous, isn't it? >> well, yes. and also because the longer the interest rates stay high, the worse that is for the economy, they not only will it help businesses get going and then you wouldn't have to put up taxes because we'd get growth back in the economy. but also the us is unlikely to cut their

rates at the moment because they have a massive fiscal stimulus program going on. there so if the uk does cut the rates now, the uk does cut the rates now, the pound will fall, which is good for trade and it is good for our trade deficit. and that is something that people always think about their holiday in spain. but you're going no, no, no, it's not about your holiday. it's about our trade . we've got it's about our trade. we've got it would be a really good thing if they cut rates . luckily, the if they cut rates. luckily, the governor of the bank of england is saying that he's going to cut rates a lot. but today would have been a really good day. >> today would have been a good start. and it's a bit of a pity that the chancellor wants him to delay. it's really odd thing. intervention to have made slightly insane. >> i don't know if he's i don't know if he's thinking if he looks like he doesn't care. was a double bluff. it was a double bluff. that's what i think. yeah, i think the report said that the non—protected areas would have to be cut by 3.4% to leave any slack in the system. does this mean that if there's a labour government, it really will have to raise taxes to pay

for all the expenditure promises that aren't enunciated line by line, but are implicit in how labour wants to change public services. >> well, at the moment there's an awful lot of there's an awful lot that you've done to, to increase to increase that burden. so so what this report seems to show to me, even if it was a quarter right, is that jeremy hunt was being incredibly reckless by cutting national insurance, as he did. he was salting the earth by using non—dom non—dom , abolition of non—dom non—dom, abolition of their of their non—dom status to, to try and fund his tax cuts where it could have gone on the pubuc where it could have gone on the public service as it should have done 2 million extra nhs hops and so on. >> but rachel reeves supported the budget in the end, didn't she? >> well, i mean, she voted, she didn't vote against. >> they didn't they didn't vote against it. say so. >> but but but what? but what jeremy hunt did was take away one of the key planks that she would have funded, improving the nhs. >> was it then? >> was it then? >> well , why >> was it then? >> well, why didn't she say i want this money for the nhs? she

did. i mean, she did say she can't have it twice. no, she can't have it twice. no, she can't have it twice. no, she can't have it twice. so labour didn't vote against the national making. is that if jeremy hunt had done some good with that extra money that he'd got, he's giving it back to people. >> so we keep our own money that cuts. >> yeah, but typical socialist money is not better by the labour party than by better spend it on the nhs. and so when you come back to your original question, the danger, of course, is public services will end up suffering. >> i think catherine's right. we need better productivity anyway, thank you to my panel. that was slightly unfair of me on nigel. anyway, next week. next. not next week. immediately. next, we'll be talking about parliament spending the best part of £70,000 on a new diversity manager, plus, the head of british gas wants to make smart metres mandatory. i'll be giving you my view on that. but you can

we've had some absolutely fascinating mail. morgs paul says just a thought. inspired by a couple of mps who have

recently defected to another political party. in such case, is it a foregone conclusion that their destination party will be pleased to have them? has never happened.the pleased to have them? has never happened. the prospective floor crosser has been turned down. well, i don't know. i'm not going to ask george galloway what my chances would be of joining him. i might be a better bet than monty panesar. and ron says , i love this elf. it could says, i love this elf. it could be a clever tory plot. we haven't had many of those recently. she thinks she will lose her seat, so she's stirring up trouble with sir keir and the labour members. the economy's growth is sluggish as our wages homes are unaffordable and the tax burden is approaching a 70 year high. but i may have the answer for you apply for a job as a senior diversity and inclusion manager at the house of commons or lords, and you could earn yourself nearly £70,000 a year putting you in the top 10% of earners in the united kingdom. of course, i'm being facetious, but in spite of the chancellor's supposed war on waste, the house of parliament are advertising for these jobs that are, of course, paid for by you. well, my panel is still

with me. gb news is senior political commentator nigel nelson and catherine mcbride, economist and fellow at the centre for brexit policy. catherine, how do we continue with this nonsense? >> i have no idea because once you've said we don't need this, the house of parliament is a very diverse place. the conservative party has a very diverse place, so it's not. and, so why why do we need this, what do they do? this is the million dollar question. what do you do for £70,000? >> what you do is you manage inclusion and diversity. and the question comes down to that mean , well, what what it means is that, you get fresh ideas that if you can have a diverse and inclusive workforce, you get more innovation, fresh ideas around the house of commons, you've got a very diverse workforce in the house of commons. yeah, but but it also has to be managed. so what you need has to be managed as workforce. >> but you don't need to manage the diversity. >> you don't believe in it, but you don't believe in inclusion

and diversity anyway. i believe in good quality people getting through. >> right. and the house of commons has really first class people working there. it doesn't do from all sorts of backgrounds. >> it does indeed. but you're talking about about something like 10,000 people on the parliamentary estate. so all that needs managing and if you've got inclusion and diversity policies, the least one of the least diverse the press gallery, it's getting better. >> how is it ? >> how is it? >> how is it? >> whereas across the parliamentary estate, the people actually employed by parliament on merit are very diverse. why do they need to be lectured on this? >> exactly. and they're there because they're the meritocracy. you know, they got there because they're good at their job. and they're good at theirjob. and they're good at theirjob. and the idea that we're now going to have box ticking and it'll be, well, you're very smart, but sorry , you don't fit our sorry, you don't fit our diversity profile. so you can't come in. that's that's the worst kind of discrimination. and that's also getting the wrong people into the house. >> but these people are replacing people who are already there. so it's not an extra cost to the taxpayer. it's a continuing one. >> but you could save £70,000 a

yean >> but you could save £70,000 a year, which is surely a good thing to do. >> but the whole point, the reason that we talk about a diverse house of commons, diverse house of commons, diverse house of lords, is because you've got inclusion and diversity policies. >> i don't think that's true . >> i don't think that's true. you i think you've got it because actually it has employed people who are capable. i don't think there are people working in the house of commons who have had positive discrimination in their favour. the speaker, the previous speaker, jeremy wait, positive discrimination, wouldn't it? john bercow tried this. do you remember when he tried to get in a clerk who was a catering assistant from canberra? yes. and it was a disaster because the clerk lee task is one that requires people to understand part . to understand part. >> but there were square pegs in round holes. wasn't that there was not the fit there, but one of the one of the reasons i think parliament is so diverse with so many people is because they've got these inclusive policies. and the fact that jeremy hunt wants to end in the civil service, that's fine. but fortunately, parliament is not is not answerable to government. >> this is part of the problem because parliament can spend whatever money it feels like and the taxpayer just picks up the

tab. >> so there's no proper control. it's why the, a victoria, not the victoria to the elizabeth tower had such an enormous overrun. it spends money like water because it can. >> i don't know how to answer that other than as a taxpayer . that other than as a taxpayer. i'm shocked, but the i cannot see that we need, you know, the uk workforce is incredibly diverse, and i think most of it has happened by accident rather than by design. and i really don't think we need these managers. >> all right. >> all right. >> now, the chief executive of centrica, the firm that owns british gas, has suggested that smart metres ought to be made mandatory when speaking to the energy select committee, chris o'shea explained the policy would help create a smart grid that would help keep costs low for everyone . except, of course, for everyone. except, of course, this research is wrong and mr o'shea is a very impressive man. of all the people i dealt with in government, he was one who i thought was particularly able, thoughtful and good at his

business. but here he's got the wrong end of the stick because 4 million smart metres don't work properly, which means you could be overcharged. but that's not the point. fundamentally, smart metres are anti the free market and anti—business. if demand increases, what ought to happen is that the business should increase supply. that's how markets work to meet the needs of the customer. at the time, the customer wants to use it. smart metres are about rationing as in the wartime. if you've got as in the wartime. if you've got a short supply and it's being done because of a misplaced green agenda, and it will mean you pay green agenda, and it will mean you pay a higher prices, not lower prices. it's a racket. so i would discourage anybody from installing a smart metre. that may not work, and i'd encourage businesses to focus on their customers and shareholders rather than green ideology. but back to my panel, nigel, you're much more in favour of this

green ideology than i am. >> i'm in favour of net zero. however, i do agree with you on smart metres, but actually for a different reason. i just don't trust the energy companies and the danger of them. the advantages obviously are you can you can green the grid by getting more renewables in it. and for the customer it is you can keep it, keep an eye on your consumption and don't have to do metre readings. that's the plus side minus side. you mentioned the fact that some of them don't work. that's not very helpful. the other thing is chris o'shea, shea's company, british gas, used agents to break into people's homes to force them to have pre—payment metres. how do you trust a company that does things like that? if the smart metres come in, you could end up with surge pricing. so instead of your off peak and peak and peak charges, they'll hit you when christmas time, they'll hit you when yet when? when we're all having a shower, something like that. and if you had a nationalised energy sector, i would trust it more than people

who make profits. >> right? >> right? >> well, i certainly wouldn't trust a nationalised energy sector. but chris o'shea said it's about reducing prices . but it's about reducing prices. but it's about reducing prices. but it isn't really. it's about putting up prices at the time of day. people want to use energy. well, i think the main way that they save money on this is the fact that they can fire all the people who go around reading the metres, because these things automatic, read the metre and send that to the company who can bill you . bill you. >> but as you've said, the there's apparently 4 million that don't work and they are overcharging . and someone once overcharging. and someone once said, why don't they never not work and undercharge and it's like, well, they probably do. they're probably some of those that we don't know about. but that we don't know about. but that also means that eventually you get a massive bill. >> if you've got one that under charges, you probably don't tell the gas, don't tell the gas, where does it overcharge? >> they're really sensitive to it. >> and then they send you a bill for £1,000 or something. so it's not it's not a good thing to have one under charging you ehhen >> but it's a really weird approach to the market that

companies want to provide the supply that their customers demand at as low a possible price, which you get. >> the energy market and the water market, they don't want to supply you with the goods. that's just weird. >> well, in electricity you can encourage people to say, turn on the tumble dryer in the middle of the night like before you go to bed, turn that on. fine, so you can stretch out your electricity use, but you can't with gas, the whole country turns on its heating at sort of six in the morning and turns it off when they go to work at eight, and then it turns on again in the evening. and this is during the winter, and then summer comes and we all turn it off completely and just cook with gas. >> but also it's much easier with gas because electricity has to be balanced second by second, whereas gas is balanced over the course of 24 hours. so it's not it's not the same pressure on balancing it. >> there's nothing he can do to make me turn on my heating at 3:00 in the morning. you know, it's like i don't need that. you know, i'm not going to start cooking or my breakfast at, you know, a different time .

know, a different time. >> i don't want to lead my life for the convenience of energy companies. i want them to supply me with goods. none of us run our lives for the convenience of supermarkets. why should energy companies? that's what we agree about. we do. that's where we. nigel's coming out of the tory party that's going to be our next conversion anyway. thank you very much. my panel coming up next, i'll be joined by the dowager princess of thurn and taxis to discuss the feast, today's feast of the ascension, plus, we'll be finding out what's coming up with patrick christys.

men of galilee. why do you stand and stare? today marks the 40th day since easter sunday. and the time we pause to celebrate the feast of the ascension. this holy day that celebrates the ascension of our lord in heaven. following his resurrection in the eastern church. this feast was known as analepsis, which translates to the taking up,

demonstrating that by ascending into his glory, christ completed the work of redemption. his holiness the pope tweeted today. the ascension shows jesus is alive among us in a new way. he is now present in every place and time and is close to each of us. we are never alone. we have an advocate who guides us, waits for us, and defends us. well, my panel have stayed with me nobly to discuss this subject , because to discuss this subject, because ascension day used to be one of the really important feasts. it used to be a public holiday. i was speaking to somebody today who was a schoolgirl, used to get a day off and be able to go to church, but now , i mean, i to church, but now, i mean, i think if i hadn't mentioned it, hardly anybody would be talking about it. >> it is a shame, though, of course, in a catholic country, in italy, in every little village there will be a parade. there'll be carrying some something, some relic from the church , and we'll all have cake church, and we'll all have cake at the end. so it's, you know, cake is always a good thing. it's always a good thing. i liked ascension day and nigel,

as i say, it used to be a major celebration, you know, for anglicans, it didn't. >> of which i am one. so. >> but a very important one, because it's really the conclusion of the easter season, but i think that the for an anglican that it's easter is the is the main thing. and the lead up to easter after that we kind of go back to, to our normal lives. if you like. >> yes. and the ascension, the importance of the ascension . is importance of the ascension. is that it? it's a completion , that it? it's a completion, isn't it? it brings christ's ministry on earth to an end. he ascends into heaven full circle, full circle, and the apostles are then waiting for him to come back and i love the scene in saint luke's gospel where the angels appear and say to the apostles, men of galilee, why do you stand and stare? because they're looking up and they've got to get on with normal life. they've got to carry on doing what christ had told them to do, not knowing when he will come out. that message that it is not for you to know when i will return. >> yes, unfortunately, the apostles are rather dim. he's

always having to explain things to them, whereas mary magdalene is the great star of the show. >> oh, isn't she just. and that's one of the. i mean, it's such an important part of the resurrection that the first people to see the resurrected lord are women who weren't deemed to be good witnesses in that time, and therefore that the gospels should have women as witnesses is, in a way, in a strange way, an underpinning of the truth. because if you're making it all up, you wouldn't have had female witnesses. they couldn't give evidence in court that would be accepted against a man i didn't know that. yeah. so, so, so mary magdalene being the first witness is extraordinarily the most important disciple , which is why important disciple, which is why i'm always curious about about, the opposition. >> there's been to women priests. i mean, now , at least priests. i mean, now, at least in the church of england, we've got them. but it still took till 2015 to get a woman bishop. i think it's going to be unlikely in the catholic church because it's not going to happen. >> and not least because of the orthodox church's view. and the

catholic church would like to have a unity with the orthodox and the orthodox, aren't going to change. and i mean, on mount athos, you're not even allowed to take a chicken given on the biblical evidence, i would have thought that the church ought to pay thought that the church ought to pay much more attention to women than it does. well, the catholic church does, because there's such an enormous devotion to our lady. >> yes, but not. but not when it comes to the church structure. so in the early days of the church , women were able to church, women were able to preach and all that was taken over by the fourth century saint paulis over by the fourth century saint paul is very against preaching. saint paul's a misogynist. >> well, i'm not sure he is, but he fused people and he says that husbands have to look after their wives. he's very clear about that. but he's not at all in favour of their preaching. mind you, he's not really in favour of anybody much other than himself preaching. >> well, there's always that. yes >> his wonderful line on wasn't the most pleasant man, was he? he's rather great, man, but there's a wonderful line of his on speaking in tongues where he says, well, of course i can do this whenever i feel like it,

but it's really not the best thing to do. so i'd rather you didn't. and i like his, but he'd rather ipsis. >> he'd rather everyone was celibate and he didn't seem to oppose slavery too much either. >> and this. oh, he does know his letter to philemon is saying that you should release an simus as a christian he was. but under the law, you don't have to. >> yes, that's right, it's quite nuanced. but he also makes the point about slaves owe a duty to their to their masters, and masters owe a duty to slaves. if you responds to wives and wives to husbands, if you retranslated that to employer and employee , that to employer and employee, you might be able to bring it up to up to date. well, that's a very interesting thought on the feast of the ascension, which also it happens today to be the birthday of archbishop george stack, who is a very formidable bishop in cardiff, or was until he retired. >> so i wish him a very happy birthday on the feast of the ascension. that's all for me. up next, it's patrick christys patrick. are you going to be talking about things rising up to heaven ? to heaven? >> well, rising tensions today outside oxford university, i went to experience the oxford university pro—palestine

encampment , university pro—palestine encampment, which means i spent the day with a load of middle class fake communists who stopped shaving their armpits. jacob. but i'm also going to be talking about whether or not keir starmer will sell britain out to the extremists just to claim power. i've got an astonishing clip of a transgender athlete, and we've allowed a gun toting jihadi back onto the streets of britain. so it's all go. >> it's all absolutely extraordinary. i'm sure they don't wash either. these funny people , regardless of how they people, regardless of how they shave or otherwise. i'm glad that's all. after the watershed, after the weather, i'll be back on monday at 8:00. i'm jacob rees—mogg. this has been state of the nation, and the weather is going to tell you that in somerset. it really is better than anywhere else in the country. as always. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> good evening. welcome to your latest weather update from the met office here on gb news. another cracking day tomorrow if you like it. fine, warm and

sunny. if anything . a little bit sunny. if anything. a little bit warmer than today with light winds. thanks to this chunky area of high pressure. hasn't been fine everywhere today there has been these weather fronts just trickling across northern scotland, still bringing some outbreaks of rain, particularly for caithness, sutherland and spreading across the northern isles, with a patchy rain at times across aberdeenshire too. but for most it's dry and fine out there. generally clear skies, a bit of mist and low cloud returning to parts of eastern england, and a few fog patches are possible in the south, where temperatures in the countryside could dip down to 3 or 4 celsius. most towns and cities there are starting tomorrow at 10 or 11 celsius, and most will start tomorrow with plenty of sunshine, and for many it'll just stay that way. we will see again some misty conditions around a few coasts particularly perhaps east anglia, the east coast of northern ireland, southwest scotland and a bit more cloud moving into the western isles through the day. but any early rain across shetland should clear. for most, it's fine sunny spells and warmer than today. 21 to 23, maybe 24 or even 25 and 1

or 2 locations. another fine day to come on saturday. again, the possibility of some mist and low cloud affecting eastern coast. the small chance of 1 or 2 isolated but heavy showers over northern england and southern scotland, but for many fine again and if anything, a little warmer, 2425 degrees, a little cooler around some coasts. goodbye >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boiler as sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> it's 9 pm. i'm patrick christys tonight as a megaphone going on there, saying that we're unfriendly press, which is interesting . i expose the oxford interesting. i expose the oxford palestine mob. do you think this might be a bit fascist ? that's might be a bit fascist? that's a little bit fascist. palace site? no. >> okay. palestine

>> okay. palestine >> it's almost like they're the fascists. and i can see a changed labour party. >> they can see that we're fundamentally and unrecognisably different from the labour party of 2019. well keir starmer embrace extremist just to win votes. he's already sold his principles down the river with elphicke dodi keir starmer. >> labour have changed and i think that change is going to bnng think that change is going to bring a much better future for our country. and that's why i'm so keen to join the labour party and play my part in bringing that important future forward . that important future forward. >> doesn't like she's blinking for help there, doesn't it? stay tuned though, because we've got a big story about labour coming at 10:30 pm. and an exclusive . at 10:30 pm. and an exclusive. this jihadi is back walking the streets elsewhere, though people inside say . israel streets elsewhere, though people inside say. israel is booed at eurovision telegraph columnist

allison pearson, lord shaun bailey and ex—labour advisor